I got contacted a few days ago about posting an advert on "this site", looking at the link it turned out to be a goldseller. Those of you who know me, know that I love a good discussion, so that's what I set out to do.
It's interesting to note, he doesn't actually play the game and the site was set up by an American. I'll not link to the "actual" site here for obvious reasons.
This log is posted with his permission, though slightly edited so as not to get him into trouble. Well, I thought it was an interesting conversation at least. You don't get to talk to a goldseller every day ^_^ Especially not one that's at least 99% understandable.
Chat Log:
[9:45:21] gseller: hi
[9:45:46] bbr: Greetings.
[9:46:11] gseller: how many sites do you own atm
[9:46:14] gseller: if i may ask
[9:46:56] bbr: 3-4, well 5 actually, but not all are running particulary popular.
[9:47:17] gseller: which one is the most popular :)
[9:47:25] bbr: http://rrvs.blogspot.com/
[9:48:01] gseller: if i buy the ads banner there, what is the rate?
[9:48:35] bbr: That depends what location you're looking to advertise on.
[9:48:43] gseller: oh it is a blog..
[9:49:02] bbr: So it is.
[9:49:11] gseller: um, is it related to world of warcraft?
[9:49:39] bbr: One that attracts ~800 visitors a day even. And yes, world of warcraft related, news, guides, etc.
[9:50:17] gseller: do you have an Analysis date?
[9:50:41] bbr: If you look at any of the Project wonderful banner locations you can see the running analysis over the past 30 or so days.
- Snip - He couldn't find it initially, linked to PW etc.
[9:52:53] gseller: yep, that is where i find your site
[9:53:43] gseller: um, if i advertie via them, part of the fee will be theirs?
[9:53:55] bbr: Aye, they keep 25% i believe.
[9:54:09] gseller: how about i pay the 100% to you
[9:54:57] bbr: If you're looking for a fixed location, you'd be paying a bit more than 100% of the current PW advert. Since you wouldn't have to worry about being overbid.
[9:55:15] bbr: What site would you be looking to advertise for?
[9:55:33] gseller: haven't you check my site? i sent it in my first email to you
[9:55:44] bbr: The one you linked in hotmail?
[9:55:49] gseller: ya
[9:56:14] bbr: Yeh,,,
[9:56:20] gseller: www.somelink.com
[9:56:49] bbr: There are a few links to guides, with very little content
[9:57:06] gseller: yes, we are developing it
[9:57:58] gseller: but the most function of the site is not guides
[9:58:11] bbr: And, gold selling, which, if you look at the sidebar on the blog I'm not supporting. So, if you wish to advertise on (pretty much any wow blog) you'd have to pick what area you wish to devote your site to. As you may or may not know, goldselling is against blizzard's Terms of Service, and shunned by the majority of the playerbase.
[9:59:49] gseller: I know, Blizzard don't want others earn their money, while they selling tings in WoW.( you might dont want to hear this)
[10:00:05] gseller: but them payers just dont have time to farm gold
[10:00:24] gseller: then they exchange to the gold
[10:00:35] gseller: I think it is their right
[10:01:01] bbr: I'm quite aware of the mechanics, but it is still a game after all. Games are played to have fun, spend time doing stuff. Buying gold allows some of those players to basically skip the content, it's a form of cheating over other players, and inflates the economy.
[10:02:16] gseller: since one pay a game, he want to enjoy the game complietly. But lets say, he works most of the time of the day
[10:02:27] gseller: how should he do?
[10:02:52] gseller: just like soeme children, pay the game all the day?
[10:03:01] gseller: game is not all in his life
[10:03:32] gseller: and soem people like buying gold, some people dont, they spend money in the game
[10:03:39] bbr: Play the game at the speed that's available to him, I'd say. If you have 3 hours a day to spend on a game, you're still playing the game. Basically, those that buy gold want to play a different game, not world of warcraft.
[10:04:18] gseller: Yeah buddy i understand totally
[10:04:48] gseller: but, when he want to buy gold he will go no matter there si NO GOLD or not
[10:05:09] gseller: if he dont want to buy gold, he will not go
[10:05:21] bbr: It's not like there's not a dozen other games "out there" that are like world of warcraft where gold buying and selling is supported, even encouraged. Blizzard wants all it's players to have a fair and equal field.
[10:05:21] gseller: all are up the players
[10:06:33] gseller: existence in possible
[10:07:07] gseller: I don't play WoW though
[10:07:49] bbr: Indeed, the player's choice. But, those same players accepted the terms of service / user agreement when they started playing the game. Other games, like some from gpotato have a build in item and gold buying / selling system that allows them to compete with other players through real money. It's what the company that set up the game intended.
[10:08:13] gseller: hehe, yep
[10:08:42] gseller: but how many players will notice the agrement when the start to play the game
[10:08:54] bbr: Less than 1% i bet :P
[10:09:07] bbr: Same for most windows installers.
[10:09:27] bbr: Still, even if they don't read it, they are legally bound to it.
[10:09:34] gseller: I don't want to oppose Blizzard
[10:09:53] gseller: after all, the game WoW is awesome indeed
[10:09:58] bbr: But others are, and are making money off it. Right?
[10:10:26] gseller: yes, there are many company in the world doing so
[10:10:48] bbr: If you can't beat them join them? Surely there are more "legal" ways to get money though?
[10:11:06] bbr: Take for example this site: http://www.mmo-champion.com/
[10:11:10] bbr: Or: http://www.worldofraids.com/
[10:11:20] bbr: I'm sure you know them?
[10:11:23] gseller: i know that site
[10:11:30] bbr: Exactly, many do. And many many players visit those sites.
[10:11:54] bbr: They don't sell gold, but they "do" attract a lot of players.
[10:12:19] gseller: more than the official site?
[10:12:20] bbr: Sites like that can sell advertisements to other companies for a good price.
[10:12:38] bbr: Possibly equally, if not more.
[10:12:38] gseller: exactly, ok, and when did you started the game?
[10:13:24] gseller: I mean WoW
[10:13:33] bbr: Around beta, so, 3-4 years ago i guess.
[10:13:54] gseller: never bought gold I guess :P
[10:14:08] bbr: Nope, I have sold it though. But that wasn't in WoW.
[10:14:16] bbr: Before WoW I've played Ultima Online.
[10:14:19] gseller: hah, okay
- Snip - uninteresting Ultima Online market mechanics.
[10:15:59] bbr: What made you decide to try and start a gold selling site then ?
[10:16:13] gseller: hmm, actually, im just incharge of the ads stuff, out of the game
[10:16:43] bbr: So the actual goldseller is another company?
[10:16:50] gseller: no, the same company
[10:17:13] bbr: Ah, so you work " for " them?
[10:17:18] gseller: yes
[10:17:39] bbr: Easy job then, public relations.
[10:17:56] gseller: hah, anyway, if we cant advertise on your site, there will be sites allowed the advetiement
[10:18:32] gseller: just as i said, one thing exsit, it musht has its reasons
[10:19:18] bbr: Likely, but some of us will have to stand by our principles. Not all of us accept it. If we do, there'll be no end in sight.
[10:19:58] bbr: If we were to start supporting goldselling as an accepted thing, more will do, and that'll mean we're violating the ToS as much as those buying or selling the gold.
[10:20:48] gseller: you have your principles
[10:21:07] bbr: You should try playing wow though ;)
[10:22:21] gseller: i dont like game, even it is an awesome one
[10:22:45] bbr: It's large, for one.
[10:22:51] gseller: what i really love is the real world
[10:23:43] bbr: Outdoor sports 'n all? China is a very beautiful country.
[10:23:54] gseller: world of warcraft even has its own world
[10:24:07] bbr: Well it is caled " world" of warcraft after all.
[10:24:40] gseller: it is a world after all
[10:24:58] gseller: and owns millions fans all around the world
[10:25:08] gseller: a game can be this is really somthing
[10:25:18] bbr: ~12 million players now i think.
[10:25:26] gseller: i guess
- Snip - Some random statistics.
[10:26:58] bbr: Hm, not updated for 2009, but decently accurate : http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html
- Snip some random chit chat about the country.
[10:33:34] gseller: ok,I will express reservations to the gold selling
[10:34:03] gseller: i will neither say it is good nor say it is bad
[10:34:38] gseller: It is just a game( no matter how amazing it will be)
[10:35:20] gseller: and guess what
[10:35:33] gseller: i dont sell gold
[10:35:36] bbr: Everyone has a right to earn a living and get money for food and living sure. But there's always alternatives. What "did" you study for in school?
[10:35:51] gseller: um
[10:36:02] gseller: English is my major
[10:36:46] bbr: Should send a mail to whoever put together that text on the front page then, as it's quite full of grammar errors.
[10:37:14] gseller: on the site?
[10:37:25] bbr: Affirmative.
[10:37:45] gseller: that is written by an American, LoL
[10:37:52] bbr: o_O
[10:38:14] bbr: It's pretty bad.
[10:38:33] gseller: i cant see there is a problem
[10:38:56] bbr: I see 3 right off, probably easy to find more if I read it a few more times.
[10:39:15] gseller: impossible
[10:39:21] bbr: on 5 now.
[10:39:51] gseller: how can an article written by English speaker not be a correct one? LoL
[10:40:40] bbr: Well it must have been an import american, certainly not a native. Or if it is, then it's some lowtown uneducated fool.
[10:41:13] gseller: English is your first language?
[10:41:38] bbr: My second actually. But I use it daily for work.
- Snip - Random stuff about work.
[10:42:26] gseller: English is his first language, means even he dream he will speak that LoL
[10:42:58] bbr: I find that highly doubtful. I suspect (and hope for his sake) that someone edited the text afterwards.
[10:43:26] bbr: Either that, or he purposefully made it like this. Hope he didn't get paid much.
[10:43:46] gseller: he did that all for free
[10:43:51] bbr: Figures, may not be a bad idea to hire a professional for it instead. If you are selling stuff, it's always a good idea to look professional at the least.
[10:45:15] gseller: um you are right, I will tell him your words
[10:46:28] bbr: At any rate, i really need to start on making some breakfast.
[10:49:05] bbr: I'll keep ya around on skype if you're up for some more chat at a later time. You mind If I cut some parts of this conversation onto the blog?
[10:50:45] gseller: up to you, it is your site anyway, just please respect privacy
[10:51:27] bbr: Don't worry, name will be edited out, personal details not shown, fully anonymous.
[11:02:35] gseller: okay, when my English level reach a higher leveling, make my words on your site as the second time
[11:03:46] gseller: see you
Chat with a goldseller
I got contacted a few days ago about posting an advert on "this site", looking at the link it turned out to be a goldseller. Those of you who know me, know that I love a good discussion, so that's what I set out to do.
It's interesting to note, he doesn't actually play the game and the site was set up by an American. I'll not link to the "actual" site here for obvious reasons.
This log is posted with his permission, though slightly edited so as not to get him into trouble. Well, I thought it was an interesting conversation at least. You don't get to talk to a goldseller every day ^_^ Especially not one that's at least 99% understandable.
Chat Log:
[9:45:21] gseller: hi
[9:45:46] bbr: Greetings.
[9:46:11] gseller: how many sites do you own atm
[9:46:14] gseller: if i may ask
[9:46:56] bbr: 3-4, well 5 actually, but not all are running particulary popular.
[9:47:17] gseller: which one is the most popular :)
[9:47:25] bbr: http://rrvs.blogspot.com/
[9:48:01] gseller: if i buy the ads banner there, what is the rate?
[9:48:35] bbr: That depends what location you're looking to advertise on.
[9:48:43] gseller: oh it is a blog..
[9:49:02] bbr: So it is.
[9:49:11] gseller: um, is it related to world of warcraft?
[9:49:39] bbr: One that attracts ~800 visitors a day even. And yes, world of warcraft related, news, guides, etc.
[9:50:17] gseller: do you have an Analysis date?
[9:50:41] bbr: If you look at any of the Project wonderful banner locations you can see the running analysis over the past 30 or so days.
- Snip - He couldn't find it initially, linked to PW etc.
[9:52:53] gseller: yep, that is where i find your site
[9:53:43] gseller: um, if i advertie via them, part of the fee will be theirs?
[9:53:55] bbr: Aye, they keep 25% i believe.
[9:54:09] gseller: how about i pay the 100% to you
[9:54:57] bbr: If you're looking for a fixed location, you'd be paying a bit more than 100% of the current PW advert. Since you wouldn't have to worry about being overbid.
[9:55:15] bbr: What site would you be looking to advertise for?
[9:55:33] gseller: haven't you check my site? i sent it in my first email to you
[9:55:44] bbr: The one you linked in hotmail?
[9:55:49] gseller: ya
[9:56:14] bbr: Yeh,,,
[9:56:20] gseller: www.somelink.com
[9:56:49] bbr: There are a few links to guides, with very little content
[9:57:06] gseller: yes, we are developing it
[9:57:58] gseller: but the most function of the site is not guides
[9:58:11] bbr: And, gold selling, which, if you look at the sidebar on the blog I'm not supporting. So, if you wish to advertise on (pretty much any wow blog) you'd have to pick what area you wish to devote your site to. As you may or may not know, goldselling is against blizzard's Terms of Service, and shunned by the majority of the playerbase.
[9:59:49] gseller: I know, Blizzard don't want others earn their money, while they selling tings in WoW.( you might dont want to hear this)
[10:00:05] gseller: but them payers just dont have time to farm gold
[10:00:24] gseller: then they exchange to the gold
[10:00:35] gseller: I think it is their right
[10:01:01] bbr: I'm quite aware of the mechanics, but it is still a game after all. Games are played to have fun, spend time doing stuff. Buying gold allows some of those players to basically skip the content, it's a form of cheating over other players, and inflates the economy.
[10:02:16] gseller: since one pay a game, he want to enjoy the game complietly. But lets say, he works most of the time of the day
[10:02:27] gseller: how should he do?
[10:02:52] gseller: just like soeme children, pay the game all the day?
[10:03:01] gseller: game is not all in his life
[10:03:32] gseller: and soem people like buying gold, some people dont, they spend money in the game
[10:03:39] bbr: Play the game at the speed that's available to him, I'd say. If you have 3 hours a day to spend on a game, you're still playing the game. Basically, those that buy gold want to play a different game, not world of warcraft.
[10:04:18] gseller: Yeah buddy i understand totally
[10:04:48] gseller: but, when he want to buy gold he will go no matter there si NO GOLD or not
[10:05:09] gseller: if he dont want to buy gold, he will not go
[10:05:21] bbr: It's not like there's not a dozen other games "out there" that are like world of warcraft where gold buying and selling is supported, even encouraged. Blizzard wants all it's players to have a fair and equal field.
[10:05:21] gseller: all are up the players
[10:06:33] gseller: existence in possible
[10:07:07] gseller: I don't play WoW though
[10:07:49] bbr: Indeed, the player's choice. But, those same players accepted the terms of service / user agreement when they started playing the game. Other games, like some from gpotato have a build in item and gold buying / selling system that allows them to compete with other players through real money. It's what the company that set up the game intended.
[10:08:13] gseller: hehe, yep
[10:08:42] gseller: but how many players will notice the agrement when the start to play the game
[10:08:54] bbr: Less than 1% i bet :P
[10:09:07] bbr: Same for most windows installers.
[10:09:27] bbr: Still, even if they don't read it, they are legally bound to it.
[10:09:34] gseller: I don't want to oppose Blizzard
[10:09:53] gseller: after all, the game WoW is awesome indeed
[10:09:58] bbr: But others are, and are making money off it. Right?
[10:10:26] gseller: yes, there are many company in the world doing so
[10:10:48] bbr: If you can't beat them join them? Surely there are more "legal" ways to get money though?
[10:11:06] bbr: Take for example this site: http://www.mmo-champion.com/
[10:11:10] bbr: Or: http://www.worldofraids.com/
[10:11:20] bbr: I'm sure you know them?
[10:11:23] gseller: i know that site
[10:11:30] bbr: Exactly, many do. And many many players visit those sites.
[10:11:54] bbr: They don't sell gold, but they "do" attract a lot of players.
[10:12:19] gseller: more than the official site?
[10:12:20] bbr: Sites like that can sell advertisements to other companies for a good price.
[10:12:38] bbr: Possibly equally, if not more.
[10:12:38] gseller: exactly, ok, and when did you started the game?
[10:13:24] gseller: I mean WoW
[10:13:33] bbr: Around beta, so, 3-4 years ago i guess.
[10:13:54] gseller: never bought gold I guess :P
[10:14:08] bbr: Nope, I have sold it though. But that wasn't in WoW.
[10:14:16] bbr: Before WoW I've played Ultima Online.
[10:14:19] gseller: hah, okay
- Snip - uninteresting Ultima Online market mechanics.
[10:15:59] bbr: What made you decide to try and start a gold selling site then ?
[10:16:13] gseller: hmm, actually, im just incharge of the ads stuff, out of the game
[10:16:43] bbr: So the actual goldseller is another company?
[10:16:50] gseller: no, the same company
[10:17:13] bbr: Ah, so you work " for " them?
[10:17:18] gseller: yes
[10:17:39] bbr: Easy job then, public relations.
[10:17:56] gseller: hah, anyway, if we cant advertise on your site, there will be sites allowed the advetiement
[10:18:32] gseller: just as i said, one thing exsit, it musht has its reasons
[10:19:18] bbr: Likely, but some of us will have to stand by our principles. Not all of us accept it. If we do, there'll be no end in sight.
[10:19:58] bbr: If we were to start supporting goldselling as an accepted thing, more will do, and that'll mean we're violating the ToS as much as those buying or selling the gold.
[10:20:48] gseller: you have your principles
[10:21:07] bbr: You should try playing wow though ;)
[10:22:21] gseller: i dont like game, even it is an awesome one
[10:22:45] bbr: It's large, for one.
[10:22:51] gseller: what i really love is the real world
[10:23:43] bbr: Outdoor sports 'n all? China is a very beautiful country.
[10:23:54] gseller: world of warcraft even has its own world
[10:24:07] bbr: Well it is caled " world" of warcraft after all.
[10:24:40] gseller: it is a world after all
[10:24:58] gseller: and owns millions fans all around the world
[10:25:08] gseller: a game can be this is really somthing
[10:25:18] bbr: ~12 million players now i think.
[10:25:26] gseller: i guess
- Snip - Some random statistics.
[10:26:58] bbr: Hm, not updated for 2009, but decently accurate : http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html
- Snip some random chit chat about the country.
[10:33:34] gseller: ok,I will express reservations to the gold selling
[10:34:03] gseller: i will neither say it is good nor say it is bad
[10:34:38] gseller: It is just a game( no matter how amazing it will be)
[10:35:20] gseller: and guess what
[10:35:33] gseller: i dont sell gold
[10:35:36] bbr: Everyone has a right to earn a living and get money for food and living sure. But there's always alternatives. What "did" you study for in school?
[10:35:51] gseller: um
[10:36:02] gseller: English is my major
[10:36:46] bbr: Should send a mail to whoever put together that text on the front page then, as it's quite full of grammar errors.
[10:37:14] gseller: on the site?
[10:37:25] bbr: Affirmative.
[10:37:45] gseller: that is written by an American, LoL
[10:37:52] bbr: o_O
[10:38:14] bbr: It's pretty bad.
[10:38:33] gseller: i cant see there is a problem
[10:38:56] bbr: I see 3 right off, probably easy to find more if I read it a few more times.
[10:39:15] gseller: impossible
[10:39:21] bbr: on 5 now.
[10:39:51] gseller: how can an article written by English speaker not be a correct one? LoL
[10:40:40] bbr: Well it must have been an import american, certainly not a native. Or if it is, then it's some lowtown uneducated fool.
[10:41:13] gseller: English is your first language?
[10:41:38] bbr: My second actually. But I use it daily for work.
- Snip - Random stuff about work.
[10:42:26] gseller: English is his first language, means even he dream he will speak that LoL
[10:42:58] bbr: I find that highly doubtful. I suspect (and hope for his sake) that someone edited the text afterwards.
[10:43:26] bbr: Either that, or he purposefully made it like this. Hope he didn't get paid much.
[10:43:46] gseller: he did that all for free
[10:43:51] bbr: Figures, may not be a bad idea to hire a professional for it instead. If you are selling stuff, it's always a good idea to look professional at the least.
[10:45:15] gseller: um you are right, I will tell him your words
[10:46:28] bbr: At any rate, i really need to start on making some breakfast.
[10:49:05] bbr: I'll keep ya around on skype if you're up for some more chat at a later time. You mind If I cut some parts of this conversation onto the blog?
[10:50:45] gseller: up to you, it is your site anyway, just please respect privacy
[10:51:27] bbr: Don't worry, name will be edited out, personal details not shown, fully anonymous.
[11:02:35] gseller: okay, when my English level reach a higher leveling, make my words on your site as the second time
[11:03:46] gseller: see you
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